My old and dear friend Irshad Manji, the progressive Muslim author, has been attacked with eggs in Amsterdam, and a mob of extremists has threatened to break her neck. I bet it’s those nasty, intolerant Christians again. I do hope the CBC and The Toronto Star give us lots of stories about how bad these Jesus-worshippers are.
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Michael Coren is a weekly columnist, published every Saturday, with the Toronto, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg Sun and The London Free Press and in more than a dozen other daily and weekly newspapers across Canada.
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Or maybe someone who appreciates medieval christian culture. I understand free mason christian sympathizers who quote every single known cultural commentator constitutes christian fundies now a days. At least according to all our friends in the lame stream media
Wait Michael Coren has a muslim friend BLASFIMY!!!!! The author of Why Catholics are Right has a muslim friend BLASFIMY!!!!!
I too am proud to call Irshad a friend…an accomplished… brave woman.
Manji is a self-avowed lesbian. By definition she cannot be a Muslim because Islam forbids homosexuality.
@Soulman…she is…what SHE says she is…not what you say she is. I know plenty of proud Jews who eat pork…and Catholics…who practice birth control. It’s between them and G0d…who will do the judging when the time comes based on what is in peoples’ hearts…it has nothing whatsoever to do with you.
Ok Mark I’ll rephrase it: Manji is a non-observant Muslim. Her co-religionists would be more blunt and simply say she is an apostate.
The same as would be any self-professed Jew who violates the dietary laws of the Torah, or any self-professed Catholic who uses birth control in violation of the teachings of the Magisterium. A person who openly flouts the teachings of his faith community is, in a manner of speaking, a member “no longer in good standing.” If you don’t like the rules then leave the community. But don’t break them claiming you have the right; that just shows you’re petulant and ignorant.
Manji is no Muslim.
Then Soulman… according to you… there is no place for reformation/reconstruction in the world’s great religions. Tell me then:
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and
female, provided they are from neighboring nations. A friend of mine
claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you
clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of Menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how
do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors.
They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated
to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there
‘degrees’ of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room
here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.
19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes
me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two
different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments
made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also
tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go
to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?
Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family
affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
Soulman…you sound like an expert..like you’ve studied these things extensively and enjoy expounding on such matters, so I’m confident you can help.
Religious texts contain much extreme language and some interpretations lead to conclusions like “soulman’s” and others lead to the type of violent threats we have against Manji.
Hi Mark,
Not sure what you’re expecting me to write here. Those excellent examples from the Torah were incumbent on observant Jews, no question, and as far as I know they still are. I am not a Jew and not an expert on their exegesis.
I know this much: slavery is no longer part of our society, so references to that should be left in their historical context. As for the menstruating woman…an observant Jewish woman keeps herself apart from men, and a man does not interact with a woman who is not his wife – that’s easy. You’ll have to ask an Orthodox rabbi to answer the rest of a laundry list that you have clearly saved and reserve for occasions such as these.
For Christian, Mark, those prohibitions you list are by and large valid any more — although homosexuality is expressly outlawed even in the New Testament, as is bestiality, drunkenness, adultery, cruelty, sloth, and many other examples of human weakness. Christians believe Jesus came to make a new covenant, that belief in Him is equal to observing all of God’s laws – and much harder to do. God knew man was weak and unable to follow the Torah, so out of love for His children He sent His Son to pay the blood price for mankind’s sins. Sneer at that if you will, but that’s how it works. Of course Jews will say that was a change or a reformation to existing Judaism, but Christians believe it was always part of God’s plan. Not a change so much as a development. Again, very hard to take on board, but that’s what Christians believe.
I’m sure you are now dying to say that Manji is the same as those early Christians, simply re-interpreting her faith in light of new personal revelation, a kind of Saint Paul for homosexual female Muslims and not to be questioned by me. And I will always say this in rebuttal: one cannot change articles of faith and still profess to be a member of that religion. Start a new one if you wish, but by brazenly violating the rules you voted yourself out of the existing one.
You’re quite right Jim. But back to Irshad…and to the same extent Michael…they are actually out there on the front lines of free speech…and sometimes paying the price. People like me and Soulman on our keyboards…we are but mere, anonymous pretenders.
For me the most important point was her courage to refuse to cow to the radicals and to demand that the police do their job for once; that remove the radicals and ensure her safety. Now that is probably a first and it has yet to happen in Canada. Here even we have adopted the policy of removing the innocent, and even arresting them, while granting free rein to the radicals and law-breakers. Shame on Canada.
@Mark Spark. But would it be plagiarism to say that you stole your post from input about Dr. Laura Schlesinger? Were you just trying to be clever due to someones elses cleverness? Do you feel that YOU have egg on your face?
Wait just a darn minute,Mr. Spark. Did you steal that post of yours? it looks familiar. You stole it didn’t you?
Too bad the muslim world does not have more Irshad Manji types. A very brave and well spoken woman. I enjoy Irshad’s books very much. This chic would make a great MP in the House of Commons someday.
PS…I am Christian but adore this womans fortitide, strength, wisdom and courage. I don’t always agree with her but I respect her immensely.
@ Mark – I don’t consider myself an ” anonymous pretender” so kindly speak only for yourself.
Ms Manji and Mr Coren are indeed on the front lines, but since they’re journalists/writers that is not remarkable. Those of us in other walks of life are no less responsible for living out our faiths with due respect for others in different faith groups, or even those cuddly atheists. That respect, however, does not preclude the responsibility we have to point out hypocrisy or the kind of spiritual arrogance I believe Ms Manji displays. Merry Christmas
Good for Irshad Manji for speaking whatever she wants in the name of free speech.
Hat’s off to her in her attempt to reform Islam, though I doubt that be done!
No. I’m not embarrassed by anything. The examples are all legitimate…even though I didn’t do the original leg work. I culled them a long time ago, if they’re from Dr. Schlesinger…even better. I quite admire her. I might not know how to build an internal combustion engine…but I know when I need an oil change. And I know that to move I have to step on the accelerator. What’s your point?
Wow if homosexuality is outlawed in the bible because that is God’s word where would that lead everyone who takes the bible as the literal world of god if homosexuality is determined to be genetic in nature. That would mean God is both for and against something at the same time and that would make God a cosmic jerk not deserving of deity status.
I suppose I’ll stick with being creationist centred rather that redemptive. Less hate more love.
Stephen, you should also ask, what would be the reaction of society if homosexuality were found not to be genetic in character? What if, it is actually a product of nurture instead of nature? What if, and I’m saying what if mind you, it could be “scientifically proven” (whatever that means) to be actually both harmful and curable? If that were the case, then all the well-meaning gay-rights folks would be, inadvertently guilty of leading millions of people towards harmful behaviour.
While there are certainly, hatful, reactionary and unthinking people who disagree with homosexuals (the Westbro Baptists Church just being one prominent example) there are also many people, both in the Christian community and outside it, who only oppose the homosexual lifestyle because they believe it to be harmful to those who practice it. These people do not wish to cure homosexuals because they hate them but for quite the opposite reason. The very fact that you call these people’s action “redemptive” shows that you understand them not to be acting out of hate. If they are wrong, they are at worse misguided not evil. Likewise, if they are right, then the pro-gay folks are not evil but misguided.
Also, just because some particular trait is genetic (which homosexuality hasn’t yet been proven to be) doesn’t mean it’s desired or necessarily indicative of “God’s plan” for your life. Alcoholism may turn out to be genetic but it is doubtful people would encourage a person born with this burden to pursue a life full of drinking. Nor would it make groups like Alcoholics Anonymous, who offer to cure alcoholism, hate groups.
For my own part, I support a persons right to live, pretty much, whatever lifestyle they choose, regardless of whether I agree with it or not but I also support the right of others to openly criticize those lifestyles (as long as none of these hypothetical people are doing direct violence to each other)
Soulman,
I am assuming you are a Muslim. Just to let you know the measure for apostasy in Catholicism is a lot more complex. An old joke goes like this, a guy tells a priest “I don’t go to Mass, because there are too many hypocrites in the church”. The priest replies, “There’s always room for one more”
Engaging in homosexuality, like drunkenness, is sinful behavior – full stop. It is behavior that must be changed at all costs because it is contrary to God’s laws. Don’t pursue red herrings like “but God made me this way” because that is garbage. Each person has the choice to either follow or disobey the law. And a person is no more born “gay” than he is born a drunk. It is learned behavior. Don’t let the social engineers and secular humanists/homosexual lobby tell you otherwise
Soulman,
Some people do have deep-seated same-sex attractions. I do agree that choosing to act on it is a choice.
During the days when slavery was an accepted practice in the West there were a lot of Christians who opposed and fought against it. I guess they weren’t “real” Christians then (even though today they’d be just fine)?
I’m just trying to figure out what the rules of purity are that make a person a legitimate part of their faith group. Fortunately for some of you, the rules seem to be whatever you think they are. That must be nice.
If a Muslim woman is a lesbian, I agree that could make it difficult for her at most mosque picnics. But I’m sure, like Christianity, there are some people within Muslim community that are more accepting of it than others. So maybe she did find other like-minded Muslims to make a new group with (small is it probably is).
You can call her out for her “hypocricy” all you want. I’m sure after reading some of these anonymous comments she’ll have a lot to think about.
I feel like I have gone back ten years reading all of these. The point of this all was that ms Manjii can say whatever she wants (so long as she doesn’t use libel, slander or insight physical violence etc). Whether she is an “actual” Muslim is irrelevant. Its all about free speech and her having the right to speak out against a religion, and then that particular religion retaliating with death threats in a manner that other religions around the world would not.
In regards to all this nonsense about literal biblical exegesis, it has always been the christian view to see the old testament through the lens of the new. We do not hate gays, we just disagree with homosexual marriage, and we view the act of homosexual sex as sinful. I love gays just as much as straight people, its just the actions with which we disagree. I feel like you all need to do some reading on this subject.
Great post, Chris. One of the best I’ve ever read on any blog, anywhere.
On a totally unrelated matter…I’m waiting for Michael to say something about Justin Trudeau’s behaviour today…or just what a prissy irritant JT is in general.
Chris:
Alcoholics Anonymous, who offer to cure alcoholism, hate groups.
You don’t cure alcoholism Chris, you manage it. Both my parents were alcoholics so I have first hand knowledge of both the control and non control of it. Its a constant battle.
I find your agruments flawed on basic levels and your comparisions cherry picked to make your argument.
I made that in a post that wasn’t posted which seems to be a common issue with this group. Who censors the messages anyway? So much for free speech which Michael constantly drones on about. Liberal or Conservative its the same cloth.
More and more studies are coming out stating that supposed addictions aren’t addictions at all –rather they’re a product of lack of will by the individual.
If people can quit smoking (cold turkey) after 40 years of chain smoking after their doctor tells them they have to quit or else, that only shows you its all about the will to quit. The same applies to booze.
Roger…show us one of these “studies”…a link or notation. I can’t stand that kind of lazy argument style. It’s meaningless.
I know Irshad Manji has gone through alot in her life (aka death threats, scorn from radical Muslims, etc.). However, on a purely ideological level, I see Manji as nothing more than a Muslim who decided to become a politically-correct Western liberal. Contrary to how many people view her, I do not find her positions on social or political issues to be “radical” or “revolutionary”. They are just standard Liberal positions. Granted, it is very rare to find a Muslim who so passionately embraces Western Liberalism, but it is still just Liberalism. There are hundreds of Muslims in the Middle East who have been killed for converting to Christianity and, quite frankly, I find those people far more interesting, far more courageous and far more compelling than Irshad Manji (not to take anything away from what she has done).