People who have opposed the gun registry from the beginning have said that if the government registers your guns, they will eventually seize them.
That is what is happening to gun owners who have the Armi Jager AP80.
Most Canadians won’t know what an Armi Jager AP 80 is but they might know what .22 is.
A .22 calibre rifle is a firearm without much kick, quite literally. I remember the first time I squeezed the trigger on a .22, I wasn’t sure it had actually gone off and thought the bang came from the guy next to me on the range.
.22s are often used for target practice, shooting paper targets and tin canns. Sure, you can take out a squirrel and maybe a raccoon with a 22 but it is not what are often deemed “military assault weapons.”
Were a crazed gunman going to shoot up a school or workplace they would not be using a .22. It’s not as if a .22 cannot hurt someone, all firearms, like all knives, are dangerous and need to be handled with care. So why then is the Armi Jager AP80 being moved to prohibited weapon status in Canada?
As far as we can tell it is because it looks like an AK47.
Looks like.
It doesn’t fire like an AK, it isn’t a military grade weapon but it looks like one. In reality it is no more dangerous, as far as I can tell from a standard .22 rifle, the likes of which can be bought in Walmarts, Canadian Tire stores and other retailers across Canada.
This is disturbing.
Section 71 gives the registrar of the gun registry the right to revoke a registration certificate “for any good and sufficient reason” the law says.
Is the look of a weapon a good a sufficient reason to ban it and confiscate it?
That’s what prohibiting it essentially does here and by revoking the certification of the firearm, which was previously allowed and lawfully registered, the owner is now required to surrender it.
“You are required by law to return your firearm registration certificates, without delay, either by mail to the address shown in the top left corner of this page or in person to a peaceofficer or firearms officers. You have 30 days to deliver your firearms to a peace officer, firearms officer of Chief Firearms Officer or to otherwtse lawfully dispose of them.”
This happens a lot. Some left-wing or progressive idea designed to make the world a better place will come up and someone will say, “Hold on a minute, have you thought of the rational consequences?”
In this case it was that the gun registry would be used to confiscate firearms without cause, without compensation and without the backing of Parliament.
MPs didn’t deem this .22 a prohibited weapon, a bureaucrat did and a bureaucrat demanded it be surrendered without compensation or the person will face jail time.
And you thought the gun registry was being aboloshed.
Well it is being abolished, but in the meantime the law remains on the books and the law allows for this serious infringement of personal property rights.
The gun registry needs to be done away with, the sooner the better.
And that’s the Byline.
Just an aside but the 22 caliber in skilled hands is deadly. It’s in the aim. Surgeons don’t like them because the bullet tumbles about and gets lodged in the body, making them difficult to remove. The semi auto is a capable killing machine.
I got a letter today from Candice’s Hoeppners’s office in reply to my support of C19 I sent previously.
The letter contains the following:
Quote:
You have no doubt heard of the rumour that the RCMP intends to re-classify non-restricted firearms. According to my information this rumour is false.
Brian, can you please stop calling them “weapons”. We do not own weapons, we own firearms. Weapons are used to inflict harm onto someone. We don’t do that. No different than your baseball bat being a weapon.
I own a CZ858, it’s non-restricted. It looks similar to an AK47. Fires the same round, 7.62×39. There’s at least a thousand of them in Canada. Very popular with close quarters competition target shoots. Hell, my daughter enjoys shooting it and wants one for her self!
I regret going to the post office every day now. Am I next?
ernie says:
January 5, 2012 at 10:57 pm
Just an aside but the 22 caliber in skilled hands is deadly. It’s in the aim. Surgeons don’t like them because the bullet tumbles about and gets lodged in the body, making them difficult to remove. The semi auto is a capable killing machine.
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So is a baseball bat, kitchen knife, or even your car. Let’s ban them all. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. We are all HARMESS people. Hell, I don’t even hunt!!!
You are refering to criminals who have no problems killing. Please get this through your thick head.
THAT IS NOT US!!!
Understand now?
Anything Ernie can be dangerous. Cow crap has killed entire buildings full of ppl. Gun registery and this paranoid scizo fear of guns is just… well stupid. The best arguement that ppl use to ban them is that: this will be the old west. When NOT even the old west was that. More ppl now die from guns than they did in the old west, and YES that is taking population into consideration.
What a surprise that this useless and extremely costly registry is being used to confiscate private and previously legal property. Actually this many of us have maintained from the start has always been the agenda: to eventually disarm the public.
Ernie’s comment ignores the fact that this weapon has not been used as a “capable killing machine” just as other 22s have not. An automobile is a much more “capable killing machine” but they are not confiscated.
I would hope the government will quickly remind this zealous bureaucrat that he is out of line on this.
This is the problem I have withe the RCMP being in charge or classifying any firearms. This is the same problem that some owners of the Norinco T97 rifle and I find it disgusting that firearms that are fun to shoot are being reclassified as prohibited based on appearance or barrel length or the action of the firearm. As someone who is wanting to get back into competitions I am afraid that by the time all the paperwork is done I won’t be able to own the rifle that I want as it may be reclassified as Prohibited. The rifle I am talking about is the AR-15 rifle, which is a derivative of the M-4/16 rifles that the Military uses.
The RCMP is in conflict of interest. Police forces should not be in a position to make law, just enforce it. But the RCMP having the ability to reclassify firearms is making new criminals who they can then go and arrest. Where else in society does this happen? No where. Elected politicians make laws, not police.
There is only one logical organization who should be classifying firearms. They have no political dogs in any fight, they have no criminal justice dogs in the fight, and they are experts at firearms. The Canadian Army.
Brian: Thank you so much for getting this out in front of the public. You have discovered the “Trojan horse” the Tories are running on gun registry reform. First you must understand that the firearms act is comprised of three separate but interwoven legal documents and processes. First are the criminal code provisos, second are the regulations and thirdly, the orders in council status changes. As such, the criminal code portion was designed as a kind of skeletal enabling legislation where details are left out to be filled in/created by bureaucrats at a later date. This type of enabling allows bureaucrats to totally redesign the law, from the one parliament passed, by making authorized changes to the “regulations” and by orders in council ( essentially the justice minister and his minions)
When the Harper Tories kill the registry portion of this draconian law, they have left virtually untouched the regulatory regime it operates under, and by extension, the army of petty bureaucrats are still in place who can create criminals out of law abiding people with the stroke of a pen. The firearms classification system (as you have discovered) is part of this regulatory monster which has no regard for individual legal rights or property rights.
However, the underlying cause of all the draconian regulatory remedies in the act is the fact that the Liberals turned the old federal firearms acquisition certificate (a certification of fitness to use firearms) into a “licence” to simply possess a long gun. Long guns (sporting arms) were now under the same criminal regulatory regime as handguns. The difference is in the legal nature of “licencing” property possession – this essentially outlaws non-criminal possession – unless one has the magic government vended get-out-of-jail-free card called the firearms licence. In pith and substance all possession of firearms has been made illegal in Canada. Only licensees are allowed to break the law and possess arms. This is why any small breech of the regulatory regime ( such as paperwork “cimes”) results in criminal indictment and confiscation – because the licence has criminalized gun owners and the feds act as they would with a criminal breech.
If Harper were serious about reforming this tangled piece of law we call the firearms act, so it no longer chews up innocent non-criminal citizens in its regulatory criminal grinder, he would start by decriminalizing peaceful, responsible non-criminal possession by killing the licencing regime and returning to the more effective and less costly certification to use system. Then he could remove all the regulations which provide criminal penalty for non-criminal regulatory breech.
With firearms act experts like Garry Breitkreuz in caucus, mistakes of this magnitude are inexcusable. Could it be the Harperites are afraid to do the right thing with the firearms law because of the public sector union backlash at all the jobs that would b
You know what I find humourous? Everytime there’s one of those mass killings in the US, it’s quite enjoyable to watch discussion boards. The Yanks look like ants under a magnifying glass, scattering about, in that way they have, to debate gun control – oh now, guns don’t kill people, people kill people (to which I reply, yes, using guns), or they say, well, we don’t have car control. I can’t wait for the next mass shooting.
Marc Opie says:
January 6, 2012 at 10:35 am
You know what I find humourous? Everytime there’s one of those mass killings in the US, it’s quite enjoyable to watch discussion boards. The Yanks look like ants under a magnifying glass, scattering about, in that way they have, to debate gun control – oh now, guns don’t kill people, people kill people (to which I reply, yes, using guns), or they say, well, we don’t have car control. I can’t wait for the next mass shooting.
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Why is it you socialists wish for murder to happen to prove your points? That’s what makes your side very dangerous. You are a sick person to wish harm on people for political gain.
Hey Opie, I net you really are as stupid as you sound.
I use to own an Armi Jager .22 semi auto. I sold it at an auction a couple years ago. With this news I am glad I got rid of it. If we are talking about the same gun it actually looks more like an M-16, rather than an AK-47. Anyways the Armi Jager .22 gun is no more dangerous than my semi-auto .22 cal Sears rifle. Both shoot 15 rounds and have similar accuracy. Actually, both guns can be extremely dangerous if mishandled, but in responsible hands both guns can bring great joy and should never be prohibited.
Mr. Opie highlights through his comment a very important point about the modern day “liberalism”: it is all about stroking one’s own ego by mindlesly siding with the “anointed”. Often enough, such caracters let their true character shine through statements such as “I can’t wait for the next mass shooting”. The point is that what matters most for them is to be proven right, at no matter what cost.
How degrading!
Unless we are talking war, classifying firearms is somewhat akin to classifying sticks by their length. In a fight, the longer reach gives a small advantage. Who is afraid of losing that advantage, and against whom?
I fully agree with Mr. Elder’s comments.
Thank you for letting the public know about this.
I am a lawful owner of firearms. I purchased this Armi Jager AP80 on March 22 1985, it has been in my possession ever since that date. It has also been registered with the R.C.M.P firearms centre for over 10 years.
On December 24th 2011, I received an early present from the R.C.M.P. advising me my Registration certificate had been revoked. It further advised I has 30 Days to surrender the rifle and permit. If I did not do this the information would be turned over to the local police service for action.
This letter offered no compensation or apology for their actions. When I called the Canadian Firearms registry, there was no one there who could explain why this was being done. They had no answers as to why they did not notify owners when they started this process so that we could participate in any hearings.
It appears they divided (has us registered) and conquered us (took our firearms)
This firearm wasn’t just as show piece for me, I kept it hidden and locked away when not in use. I shot about 100 rounds( $6.00) from it every two or three months. My 14 yearold son also enjoyed shooting it at paper targets on the range.
I have also been a Police Officer for the past 24 years and I have owned the AP80 for 27years. I have never seen or heard of a single incident in which this firearm was used.
I inquired with the Canadian Firearms Centre if there was some sort of list of any proposed further actions and revocations which they are planning. The lady on the phone advised “no, but laws are always changing, you can check the web site”
I am very dissapointed in their actions. I believe they could have stopped the further import and sales of this firearm in Canada and grandfathered all lawful existing owners, so that they could keep their firearms. I do not support the Long Gun Registry.
If the governemt were to leave this firearm in the hands of lawful owners, they would still have absolute control over what owners do with their firearms. It called the Criminal Code of Canada, there are numerous charges for weapons offences.
What is next? They put governors on trucks for 110 k (saves gas and safety) How about governors for motorcycles, that would save hundreds of young lives across Canada every year and the results would be immediate.
Signed
Dissapointed and disgusted
(and now $350.00 poorer, perhaps they could give me a tax write off, after all I did pay sales tax when I purchased it)