BOSTON _ The Senators go back to work Tuesday.
The party is over. It was a great weekend.
Now, the chase for a playoff spot begins.
The Senators have a lot of work to do. They’re going to have to get to the 90-point mark to make the playoffs. They’ve played more games than everybody else but with 30 games left that pretty much means they have to have a .500 record.
They’ve done it all season. I don’t know why they can’t do it now. They just need to get their scoring back. They didn’t have that going into the break.
A tough start in Boston. They haven’t had a lot of success here but the road to the playoffs begin now.
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Bruce, I am hoping they do not make the playoffs. I don’t want the team to continue the Murray tradition of pushing for a post season appearance only to make a quick exit! lets assume they end up in the final playoff spot, they will face Boston or NYR. Boston is the class of the league; check out how many players on that team are sporting big plusses in the +/-. It’s not only a testimony to the great goaltending, but alos to team play and great defence led by Chara. Boston would dispose of Ottawa in short order…and what would that prove? The NYR are a great team with perhaps the best goaltending tandem in the NHL. They may lose a game to Ottawa but win the rest (they wouldn’t win in straight games because Yosemite Sam is a lousy coach but a great screamer). I will make a bold prediction that Pitt will overtake Philly and Washington and even challenge for top spot now that everyone is healthy and returning to the lineup. Letang was agruably the best defenceman in the league before he went down! They too would dispose of Ottawa in short order.
You are right Bruce, the team wasn’t scoring goals before the break, but is it a reaonable expectation? Will Butler ever score his 6th goal and will he continue to play with and burden Spezza and Michalek? Is he a 4th liner? Will Greening continue on Spezza’s line and be an obstacle (I hope not)? If he doesn’t, he may not score another goal this year! Will Daisey the Air Rifle dress…if so, why? Is it fair to expect more goals from Condra? Neil has 9 goals and that’s spectacular; is fair for us to expect much more from him? The Dog will never score goals. I expect Foligno and Zack to score 20 goals but aside from the usual suspects them, Spezza, Michalek, Alfie…there is slim pickins. The team allows the most shots per game in the entire league and the most goals scored against. For the team to legitimately make a playoff push they will need outstanding goaltending. Its possible but not probable. Personally, I would be actively trying to move Kuba, Gonchar, Philips, Butler and Daisey the Air Rifle.
Here we go.. going to be a interesting stretch for the guys.
Ouch. well that hurt. But what’s up with the ‘non’ calls on the SENS? Not saying that Ottawa should have won that game (well being up 3 to 1 they should have..) but the hit on Condra? Are the refs still smarting after the comments from the coach?
Bobby,
Philadelphia proved a few years ago that it no longer takes many years for a rebuild. Edmonton and Calgary also proved a few years ago that anything can happen if you make the playoffs. Boston came with in a lucky bounce or 2 of losing in the first round last year, which proves again that anything can happen. As Dan said, high draft picks don’t always pan out anyway.
Dan is right, high draft picks don’t always pan out but the odds are better with them that without them. No question anything can happen when you make the playoffs, but what have Calgary and Edmonton done since. Calgary is a disaster and Edmonton has been in the toilette which allowed them to draft Eberle, Hall, the Nuge and Pajaarvi. They are awful again this year and as a result, will secure yet another high draft pick (in a relatively deep draft year). Edmonton will emerge as a powerhouse and right now, they are a lot of fun to watch. Afterall, this is the entertainment industry.
Does anyone else have an issue with Potvin’s terminal homerism and constant whining? Pav, I love you man but the referees aren’t exacting some kind of twisted revenge on the Ottawa Senators. I will suggest this however, referees are human and not immune to human feelings. If a player or a coach shows a referee up or insults them and a situation ensues where a call go either way, expect the worst! Hell, I learned that in Pee Wee hockey! The second last call of the game (Spezza got the last penaltie in the game) that was so obviously tripping, Brownie felt compelled (and justifiably so) to concede the infraction was indeed a penalty. The Hall of Shamer went on and on how unfair it was. He was and is an embarrassment. Can someone please talk to him and at the same time, give him some Kleenex to clear his sinuses and relieve us of his Nasal induced monochromatic commentary.
I read that Condra wil now paroll the left wing with Spezza and Michalek. Good perhpas for Condra but not good for the other two. Although he may be better than Butler, his 7 goals and 18 pts wont help the line. You have to feel for Spezza. Who sets him up? He is the only one on the line, no matter who is with him, who makes things happen…there others who are supposed to close the deal…aren’t! He and Michalek have played with Butler, Greening and now it is Condra! Name a first line on any team that had to endure players like that! Butler isn’t a NHLer, Condra is borderline and a softie…and the very fast (but never seen) Greening is a bona-fide 4th liner and only if he uses his great big frame (which we never get to witness!). So I ask the question…why? Why not play the kid who the GM suggests will be patrolling the line with Spez the next 10 years? Why is Butler allowed to play 40 plus games so far to prove over and over again he is not an NHLer. Why did Filly get hook after one game and scoring a point? Why not ask and insist on the answers to these questions? I have always had an issue with decisions that were made that in my mind made no sense, like: why did Daisey the Air Rifle dress while players like Smith, Regin and Shannon sat? Why did Daisey play center with Regin and/or Smith on the wing? Why didn’t the team invest in the development of Schubert. The kid who scored 9 goals in his second year, was second fastest on the team, second hardest shot and was 6-4 238 lbs?
Bobby,
Apparently no other team else wanted to invest in Schubert either.
Bobby, I am also disappointed in Mr. Potvin’s colour commentary. I was expecting a lot more honest and up front viewpoints. It appears he has been schooled big time by Senator management not to step on any toes and never never be critical of the Sens. Wilson and Schribes are worse. I swear Schribes and Wilson are closes to tears if Ottawa takes a penalty.
I can’t afford NHL ticket prices but if I was a season ticket holder, I would not be happy being told to wait 3-5 years before we become a contender. If every team took this approach, there would be a lot of bankrupt franchises. I don’t think there is any hard and fast rule that says you have to stink for 5 years before you can expect to become an contender. As I said earlier, grabbing a 9th or 10th draft pick once every year is certainly no guarantee for success. In fact, I would say you end up going nowhere fast. That is why teams like Columbus, NYI, Phx, Minn, etc…etc…never seem to do well.
Filatov is now in the KHL junior league…he didn’t show much here and he isn’t showing much at home where he is supposed to be more comfortable, etc…it was a gamble to begin with and so far it isn’t working. We still have his rights and I expect he will get asked back to training camp next year. Let’s see if he puts the work in to deserve a shot with the big club.
Potvin is terrible regardless of his homerism…he just isn’t articulate and can’t sting a proper sentence together.
As for development and moving things along…I think the Sens are going in the right direction. After taking over with pretty much zero solid prospects in the org Murray has very quickly been able to draft and trade his way to gain some youth and more picks. Until they play we can’t know but guys like Stone, JAKOB SILFVERBERG, Z-Bad, Borowcop, Petersson, etc…all appear to have a chance to have some impact on the club in the future.
In general teams that draft and develop well have sustained success (Red Wings model) and the Senators can claim to have done that in spurts…pretty much before Muckler and then after Muckler. Right now the team needs to continue to focus on having the young players mature and get better while attempting to maintain a competitive level and so far this season they have done that and then some.
There will have to be some big turn-over in the next two years with Alfie, Gonchar, Kuba, and Philips all ready to move on so you hope that Cowen continues to improve, that some of the Bingo D can make the NHL and then there will be some FA signings…lots can still happen here and if the Sens make the play-offs and draft at 18-19 that isn’t too bad…with the injuries Ceci might even be available then and would fit the bill nicely.
Hard to be content if you want them to compete, play well and win but at the same time get a low draft pick.
Side note, teams like Columbus, NYI, Minn, dare I say the Leafs, etc…have seen some very low drafts picks (well the Leafs traded many of their early picks) for many years and obviously they don’t draft well but they also don’t seem to be able to develop players either and THAT is why they remain in the lower half of the league, not because they always finish in an awkward spot. There are very few players that can just become NHL players on their own and if the organization isn’t able to help them move along both aren’t helping each other.
Spezza needs to step up in games like the one against Boston – he is a leader and needs to be counted on to help pull those out, regardless of who he is with. Malkin has willed the Penguins into the position they are in all on his own because he has the talent and the overwhelming competitive desire to do it. As much as I like Spezza, he still needs to do more.
Malkin has Jaimes Neal….and he doesn’t have Butler, Condra or Greening.
To illustrate that high draft picks don’t guarantee winning, beginning in 92 over a ten year period a certain team had a stunning 3#1overall 2 2nd overall and one 3rd overall. Although this team it’s adoring media and fans exalted in its self proclaimed “elite” status it never won squat and mostly blew up in one spectacular choke job after another . Any guesses?
Oh I know who the team is…and when I see a team consistently miss the boat on draft picks, I look at and blame the Gerneral Manager(s). All too often we assume that because someone holds the position of GM, they are are capable. I look at Smith who for years ran the NYR and won one cup because there was no cap at the time and like the Yankees he could buy a team. Since then another bum took over the GM duties and Sather signed players to gaudy contracts. Perhaps paying a 3rd or 4th line checking center was his worst paying Holik $9m annually for multiple years (Redden, Gomez, Kasperitis, Drury and many more). Here in Ottawa…yep Ottawa, we had come butes; who in their right mind would select Redden or Chara. But I remember that time well and most includig the hockey insiders, loved Redden…I never did (another of a line list of soft defencemen). Drafting a French Canadian 1st overall makes sense in this market but it shouldn’t have been the number one criteria expecially when Pronger was available then (and he could bench press his body weight whereas the other one couldn’t). Milbury is fun to listen to but was arguably one of the worst GMs in history (Ilanders will be paying for Yashin until 2015 and who knows how long they will be paying for Dipietro to sit with the owner?). Like any business, some employees do deliver; it is a natural fact, but If I had a choice, I would choose to have 1st round selections than not.
Mikey, Schubert’s confidence was shaken here in Ottawa. What could he have been with is size, speed and shot. I said before, he scored 9 goals in his second year and he was very physical but took a backseat to bums like Smith, Bell and Commodore and the like. What aspect of his game did you not like? I think of what could have been…I love the kid.
Am I hearing someone offering praises to the Murray boys. I wonder what they could do that might make someone think they arenn’t doing a very good job. Does’t Brian get full credit for making the team one of the worst in the league in very short order. Did he not piss away a bunch of draft picks for tired old bums? What if players like the following do not pan out :Stone (love him and he is a Canadian), Silverberg (who at 22 didn’t trust his skills enough to stay and test them against NHLers), Z-Bad (indeed, but I would like to see him doing more in the soft SEL), Borowieckie (are we now excited about him????..if so, why???…is this the same as the enthusiasm you had for Gryba and Wiercoch????), Petersson (yep, and lets see what he can do over the last 30 games…I will wager it would be far better than Condra, Butler or Greening in 40+). So Murray’s success is determined by how well this guys pan out? All righty then. I just hope that Daisey the Air Rifle will develop into a hockey player before he turns 30 in less than 2 years! Maybe he will have a great year next year and score….5! And then there is Obrien…he is killing it in the manures….NOT!
It continues to amaze me how some will simply buy in…with total disregard for the facts. Oh…I must have been watching a different game (or perhaps you were) Spezza was one of the strongest Senators against Boston. I suppose you thought Greening played great? I know you must have thought Karlie played a great game…
Bobby,
Schubert is another one of those players that has all the tools but no hockey sense. I’m sure any player who makes the NHL is mentally strong enough to overcome losing a bit of confidence. Bobby, I believe you tend to give up on prospects too early. (see Cowen)
You have a very good memory Kevin – 20 years you went back!
What you say is very true Kevin, the expansion team did take a while to get going and it’s OK, you can use the Senators name to throw them on the pile of elite regular season teams that did not win a Cup. Their sustained regular season success notwithstanding they are a far cry from any of the other teams mentioned for their recent lack of success.
Say what you want but until recently the Sens were a shoe in for the play-offs and regularly had high expectations going in. Of course they didn’t meet those expectations and then the aging group couldn’t compete like they had been able to and the Sens find themselves in the current rebuild.
Difference of opinion when it comes to Murray making the Sens bad Bobby – you say Murray did it and I say he took over a team that was aging and hadn’t had any prospects to speak of for several years. In a few years he has better prospects than the Sens have had in the past 10.
What would he have to do for you to give Murray any credit? He drafted Karlsson who despite your constant criticism is the elite scoring D in the league, he drafted Z. Smith whom you love, he traded Elliott who you hated for Anderson who so far has been a great pick-up.
He took Cowen over Paajarvi which you still criticize even though Cowen is one of the league leaders in hits as a rookie and Paajarvi is in the minors for the Oilers farm team.
You complain about Karlsson over and over yet are blind to anything negative Spezza does or his lack of production and blame it on the guys he plays with.
Facts: Karlsson one less game and has 48 points to Spezza’s 50….Karlsson plays 25+ mins a night and is +7 while Spezza is -1.
Your complaints ring hollow on that part Bobby.
Ah the shifting sands of statute of limitations 10-20 years was very relevant to what I understood the discussion to be, ie building through the draft as the only way to becoming a champion. Six count em, six picks in the top 3 over a ten year period would absolutely have to result in a dynasty if you subscribe to that theory. In fact I would argue that only one of those six, Spezza, is or was any kind of impact player. Yashin and Redden had brief flashes but were more hype than substance, Bonk and Phillips at best average pluggers and Daigle was likely the worst #1 ever. The teams that have wallowed in futility despite having multiple top 5 picks are many. Pittsburgh got lucky (or was it luck?) and got 2 exceptional talents back to back, anybody still drooling over Ovie Semin and Backstrom?
Kevin,
I thought when you flip-flopped and decided to contribute again, you were going to stay away from the pettiness?
Chokers? I assume you’re referring to the senators, since it would have to be a team that consistently made the playoffs. In any case, I don’t consider it choking to make it to conference finals and cup finals, but I’m sure your standards are higher.
I still believe in having the opportunity to screw up high picks in a proper rebuild. And I’ll continue to maintain that a true #1 goalie would have resulted in at least one cup for those elite senator teams.
Don’t come here often, but not much has changed.
Mike,
I agree with you about Schubert. He had all the measurables, but didn’t have the intelligence to play 5 on 5.
OD, I don’t hate (I have said this often) anyone. Hate is a very strong word; what I do hate are decisions that are made that do not put the team in the best position to win games (I have that often as well). Obrien looks like he has two broken legs. He’s an awful hockey player. In spite of the Sens very concentrate efforts to promote Greening, I don’t particularly like him. I NEVER see his speed in a game, he does squat with the puck and he isn’t physical. I never liked Butler and FINALLY he is in the press box. I am not excited about Condra. He isn’t fast, doesn’t have a great shot, very soft, but, he wont hurt ya. I know many like Cowen, I don’t. He is huge but I don’t see big hits at all from him. His only attribute is his size and he often looks like a big lumbering puck fumbler (-2 again last night). Right now, I would still rather have Paarjarvi. I am one of a but a few who doesn’t like Karlsson (he is a 4th forward lining up on the back). Again last night, we saw his failings. He is extremely quick though – I have never seen anyone jump out of a corner and leave to puck like he did last night; pressure him and he is a liability. As for Elliot no one can say they liked him. I always thought he had the althleticism and was techically sound…he just let in too many goals. Goalies are a strange bunch (check out Mr. Murphy), they can emerge as great after failure and fall mightally after success. I predicted that the Sens would fall over the last half of the season and that is happening. When a team allows the most goals and most shots per game than any other tream in the league and you have a kid on the ice like Karlie who is afraid (on the ice for the most goals scored against than any other player in the 30 team league) it can’t be a recipe for long term success (I have said that often too). “My complaints ring hollow”, you do understand OD, these are simply my dumbass opinions. I don’t like Karlie…c’est ca. You liked everybody…I didn’t. You like the prospects on the team, I don’t. I love Turris and the trade is something I endorsed entirely because I didn’t like what I saw from Rund’sbad (time will bear out if the trade was great but right now, it only outstanding). Karlie is the only prospect that has shone. Offensively he is phoenominal…he is simply a defencive liability. I will make another prediction, I will suggest that Zibby Silferberg will be shy in the corners and will struggle (although my son saw him live and said he was great). Noeson and Poempel will spend years in the manures and only one MAY emerge. Zibby will be a bonafide NHLer as will Stone if he can just improve his stiff legged stride. So, with nothing on the farm save Petersson and Hoffman where are all the prosects? You love Boro but I don’t know why. How long has Murray been here and what has he done? Measuring the success of a GM is based on winning games going to the post season and challenging for a championship. So, what has Murray done?
Kevin if you want to turn this into a straight up Leafs against the Sens argument we can do that but for clarity let’s make sure we are discussing the same thing. I did not say that early draft picks means a championship but I did say that teams that draft and develop their own players seem to be the teams that have consistent success.
Although making the play-offs in a league that allows more than half of the teams in isn’t truly success it gives those teams a shot at doing something. The teams I mentioned haven’t consistently made the play-offs in quite some time. And while I am sure you don’t find it relevant, the Sens were an expansion team so adding young, high draft players to a bunch of cast-off’s isn’t exactly a recipe for instant success.
Redden was a fine D although perhaps you have higher standards for D since there are so many great ones on the Leafs. Daigle was the overwhelming popular choice for 1st overall – he was putting up Lemieux numbers and seemed to have an edge – every team thought he was can’t miss. Bonk was all hype and the IHL was a joke league…Yahin was one of the best in the league for a time…that said, the Sens didn’t have good hockey management in their first few years but once they got some hockey people involved, things took a nice turn.
A better example might be to look at the team that finally did emerge and went to a conference final and a Cup final.
Alfie, Redden, Volchenkov, Fisher, Havlat, Hossa, Vermette, Kelly, Emery, Neil, Bonk, Rachunek, Spezza, Arvedson were all drafted and developed by the Sens. That core group were the basis of some very strong regular season teams. You need a bunch of drafted players to pan out to some degree for sustained success – be it 3rd line guys or gems that become scorers or shut down D because you simply can’t keep filling in entire rosters with FA or hope that all your trades are going to work out. If you have a large enough talent pool of your own then you are typically just looking to jam a few players in some areas of need.
For fun reading, take a look at the Leafs draft picks going back to ’92 and see how many ever played for the Leafs.
Convery, G. Marshall (long NHL career but 0 games for the Buds), Kenny Johnson could be one of the best picks but he was traded after 80 or so games, Fichaud, Jeff Ware, Jeff Farkas, Luca Cereda, Boyes (traded with 0 games for Buds), Colaiacovo, Tuukka Rask (traded with 0 games for Buds), Tlusty…
Those are just the first rounders! There are many years where the Leafs didn’t pick until the 2nd or 3rd round. Burke seems to believe that building through the draft matters now so he hasn’t traded away first rounders since the Kessel trade and I expect that the Leafs will be better off for it. Not that the Kessel trade is that bad as Kessel is a bonafide sniper and still young.
Bobby I guess my overwhelming frustration with your constant criticism of Karlsson is that when compared to the player you adore, they match up fairly evenly.
Spezza isn’t physical at all and shy’s away from contact (I know you will debate this and Spezza will grind against the boards but he NEVER gives a hit and rarely knowingly takes real contact). Spezza is gifted offensively but a defensive liability who turns the puck over far too often. The tow biggest differences between them is that Spezza is 3 inches taller and probably 40lbs+ heavier and that Spezza is 28 while Karlsson is 21.
How a guy bigger and far more mature gets the free pass while you ride a 21 year old is beyond me but I have already said enough…I wish I could have the discipline to follow my own rule of not commenting on your Karlsson bashing.
I am not big on Greening either and totally agree that his speed and shot are good for the skills competition but he doesn’t use them in games very often. He is a very large man though so I don’t expect him to be particularly quick and in my mind he probably hits enough…could be more but he gets his fair share in. I don’t feel that I am being sold on Greening either though – I don’t read or hear much touting him?
Butler is a huge disappointment to me. From what I saw at the end of last season and in the Bingo play-offs I thought he was one of those guys that just knew how to find the net. I expected him to fight for 30 goals this season and round out the first line – dead wrong so far.
Agree to disagree on Cowen – again I didn’t expect a Scott Stevens clone and he has had some bad nights lately but for a rookie he has played a lot and overall done fine.
Condra is another guy that I am indifferent about…for what he is paid and who he is though I don’t have any problems with him. He leads the team in +/- and might get 30+ points plus he is a pretty good penalty killer. He is looking more and more like a Kelly though – 3rd line guy who can move up and down the line-up as needed because he seems to think the game pretty well.
Turris has had a decent start with the Sens and I hope he can get better as he matures and gets some meat on his bones. I expect Rundblad to be an NHLer but it looks like it at the very least a positive more for the Sens – I guess Murray should be applauded for that one?
I have said from day one this teams overall defensive coverage needs to improve – it’s like a fire drill out there sometimes – and there was no way the Sens were as good as their long winning streak. They also aren’t as bad as this current streak suggests.
Prospects are just that until they play in the NHL but like I have stated – you need a pool of them to pick from and the Sens didn’t have any to speak of until Murray took over as GM. I never said I loved Boro but I think he could be a 4th or 5th Dman and in looking at him, he even made the AHL All-Star game in his first season in the A. Prince, Pageau,…
Sorry you found my comments petty Dennis, perhaps if I would have phrased it something like, failed to live up to expectations often in a spectacular fashion, rather than choking.But no matter how much lipstick you put on the piggy, you still end up with a pig. Maybe if the smug Muckler had traded a top pick or a young talent he could have landed a top goalie. But I remember that pretty much everyone in Ottawa was convinced that Lalime was a all world talent, the boys on the Team suggested that he was a candidate for Canada’s Olympic team at the time. Fact is this so called elite and talented team never won anything. And yes neither have the Leafs in 40 some years.
Never ever said that the Leafs have been a strong drafting team David, they haven’t that does not disqualify me from having a opinion on the Sens and their overhyped record. Yashin was never one of the best, a selfish slow one way player who was allowed to play that way in the interest of racking up Points and selling seats. Redden never could play in his own end, soft as butter,to think that he got as terrible as he was for the last 5 years of his NHL overnight defies logic. In the few good years he had he was the beneficiary of playing on a puck possession team that was very good, in the regular season. You fellas continue to hang your hat on the trip to the finals (better than the Leafs, I’m aware!) remember how they got blown out and the Sainted and Classy The Captain melted down and deliberately tried to injure the Ducks best player? Still never seen him asked about it or explain it in anyway.
Oh and back to the point which had zero to do with the Leafs, I believe I clearly explained why you can add the Senators to any discussion of proof that a slew of ultra high draft picks does not necessarily lead to championships.
OD, you built a compelling case about Ottawa vs Toronto draft selections. Toronto has always stumbled badly with the draft! As for Spezza, he was the subject of criticism since his first year. Spezza was booed by his own fans and he is an over a point per game guy and well in the plus column over his 500 plus game career! Go figure. Inexplicable, Karlsson never was booed. I don’t really care if he is 180; does that allow him forgiveness? Karlsson gives the puck away far more than Spezza and he is a defenceman, primarily doing it in his own end. As I say OD, I am one of a very few who are not Karlsson fans. I suggest that if the team made Spezza a defenceman and allowed him to go anywere anytime (and be forgiven for never venturing into a corner) he would be far better than Karlsson! He has a far bigger, much harder shot (snap and slap), is far craftier and one of the best passers in the entire league. But it is a great discussion nevertheless and diference makes the world go ’round huh?
Something is wrong with Michalek; he doesn’t look the same player and where is his speed? Obrien on a line with Spezza and Michalek…that can only be described a silly. Why no try Andre Petterson (who is supposed to represent the future)?
I read how Lehner is not having a good year in Bingo. It is amazing how a good team can make a good goalie great and a great goalie and bad team better and a good team great (sometimes great enough to win a cup). Bingo stinks this year.
Carkner is awful this year (and I love him). Philips is bad. Cowen at 21 years old and 6-5 and 230 lbs should be WAY more physical. His hits are like “excuse me hits” and he be nailing players the way Emelin in Montreal and Kronwall do in Detroit. There are hits and then there are HITS…he doesn’t punish anyone! To me, there are too many sub NHLers on the team: Daisey the Air Rifle, Carkner, Condra, Butler, Daugavins (his play has gone south, big time), Konopka and to me, the jury is out on Cowen and Greening (he is soft, slow and can’t do diddly with the puck)! I am not too concerned with the losing streak and it could be 9 as they will be playing: Blues, Preds and Oilers next.
Oh, I wanted to throw this out for all you goalies out there. I heard Greg Millen (he is awful too as a colour guy) the other day talking about Dubnyk (in case I spelled it wrong, he is a goalie with the Oil). He was asked for his assessment of the kid he suggested he was among many others, who think Dubnyk is not the answer for Edmonton. When asked why, he offered his lateraly mobility was lacking. Now, I am far removed from Mensa status, but I do have enough active brain cells left to deduce that a young and extremely athletic kid can learn that skill, if ineed it is true but, but at 6 ft, 6″‘ tall, he doese something better, he covers it by default! No longer is there a need to double stack. As the goalies continue to get bigger, the butterfly is the way to go and a 6′ 6″ goalie can cover a lot of ground both low and high with the butterfly! I have watched the kid and I don’t focus on goalies (sorry Murph…to me it is a different game and like Kaulie McCaukin, they are “home all alone”) but technically he looks great. I love big goaltenders!
Kevin,
I have no interest in comparing the sens to the leafs and would just like to concentrate on Ottawa. These two teams are at different stages of their competitiveness right now.
I’ve been one of Muckler’s biggest detractors on this site and I have said exactly what you mentioned several times. That 2007 team was house of cards waiting to crumble because there was absolutely nothing left in the cupboards after Muckler dealt away picks and pospects for the likes of Tyler Arnason when they needed a goalie. Muckler inherited a team built through the draft almost completely, due to the shoestring budget the team had.
Murray inherited an aging team with high expectations. He had to keep the facade going due to pressure from bandwagon fans like Visitor who only support teams that go to cup finals.
Murray’s strength appears to be his drafting. (And that comes from outside sources like Hockey Prospectus and Hockey’s Future). But he has proven that he too like Muckler should not be making trades at the deadline not matter how much Bruce would like it. In fact, as soon as the rebuild is done he should be replaced.
Fair enough Kevin. Glad you at least admitted you only wanted to bash the Sens.
You joined a discussion that was speaking in general terms about the benefits of drafting well and developing players and somehow managed to get a shot in at a whole bunch of Sens players and management going over the past 20 years.
It’s funny, I hoped when I added the Leafs name to the list of teams that haven’t drafted and developed players well that perhaps you would jump in with something we could actually debate…I was wrong…with your comments on here right before you took a self-imposed break I thought perhaps those days were behind us.
At least you openly stated the obvious very well – having high picks (either using them or constantly trading them away) does not guarantee you anything – we can all agree on that.
Fair enough David,from my perspective you listed a group of teams who had not been successful having squandered a lot of high draft picks, I believe I made a reasonable argument that the Sens should be included in that group and why. Your rebuttal was oh yeah well the Leafs are worse, sprinkled with some personal sarcasm,which is pretty standard but not to the point.
Bobby,
Karlsson was in fact booed by the not so faithful last year. He didn’t make anything out of it and no GM came to his defence.
I like both Spezza and Karlsson because I appreciate skilled and entertaining players. But not everyone has the patience for their risk/reward type of play.
Actually Kevin my point is that drafting and developing players provides a better chance for sustained success. It doesn’t really matter where a player is drafted, if he can play in the NHL at some point then the team did a good job of scouting and developing.
The teams I mentioned don’t have a lot of home grown talent, per my point of not being able to sustain success. If you think it was a cheap shot at the Leafs and you wanted to defend their honour, that is your prerogative. I take it your stance is that unless a team wins the Cup they aren’t successful at all? If that is your definition that is fine too and we disagree again.
Like I said, although it isn’t much, making the play-offs consistently to give a chance at winning a Cup is a good place to start to find success in my books.
I will be happy to agree with you and say the Leafs had a terrible season and weren’t successful if they manage to make the play-offs and get ousted though.
Please note, it won’t be you pumping my tires if you decided to throw in some thoughts on what you believe makes a team successful rather than just bringing up your favorite Sens low-lights. And I take it your, “Guess who had sooo many high draft picks and didn’t do anything” wasn’t sarcastic? Read the thread…that is where this devolved.
Nice to have you back Kevin and ya, if you want to state the obvious about an expansion team and how their picks didn’t turn out, why not look at your Buds and have a good laugh at their comical drafting record? A storied franchise will be nip and tuck to not miss the playoffs for 7 straight seasons…and sarcasm or no, that is part of the point since there have been lots of good players the Leafs could have gotten that would have allowed them the chance to see what they can do in the playoffs.
The difference to me David is that I admit the Leafs have a terrible drafting record and don’t make any excuses or qualify it an any way. In the Senators history the Leafs have had 1 top 3 pick and traded it the Sens 6. 20 years later it is my opinion that neither has been truly successful during that period. I have said I will be satisfied with a playoff spot this year and expect Cup contention by the 13 playoffs otherwise I will be disappointed.
OK well while it is obvious they have a terrible drafting record this is the first time you have admitted the Leafs have a terrible drafting record and for that you are to be commended.
I guess if everything happens in a vacuum we don’t need to worry about context however again we will disagree and while you clearly won’t agree I say it is your Leafs bias that makes you want to compare an expansion team with a storied franchise.
When does the expansion crutch cease to exist. The much maligned Islanders parlayed their expansion high picks into a dynasty in short order 7 or 8 years I believe, the lightning and Ducks both won cups, why do the Sens get a 20 year exemption?
Crutch? Look I am not saying that is the reason the Sens haven’t won a Cup because the reality is that it is obviously quite hard to win that trophy – as you know all too well.
My point, which was again in very general terms which you have managed to turn into a Sens VS Leafs conversation is that I am comfortable with the way the Sens franchise is handling this transition from the old core group to finding a new core group mainly through the draft. I personally believe that drafting well and developing players is a better model for franchises to gain consistent success than trying to build a team via free agency and trades.
I know you disagree that being in the play-offs is a form of success so you can comment again and have the last word as I believe I have now made my initial point very clear.
Thanks for allowing me the last word David, you turned the convo into Sens vs Leafs read the thread, I simply said that the Sens belonged on your list.
Since you seem offended to get the last word I will take it. Unless of course you find this offensive as well then go ahead and do whatever you like. Sorry if me stating you can do whatever you like is offensive because of course I already know you can do whatever you like without me having to state it.
You still don’t get it and I am tired of trying to explain so I will say you are right and then try to explain again.
The Sens wasted early picks in their infancy.
The fact remains their teams that went to the Conference Finals and Finals had lineups of players primarily drafted and developed by the Sens. I understand that going to the Conference Finals and Finals is in no way considered having a successful season to you but I am easy to please and really enjoyed those years.
Those teams as well as watching the most successful team in the league over the last 20 years or so, the Red Wings, still shapes my opinion on what constitutes forming a team that gives you the best chance at success.
So, Sens wasted picks and are lumped into the pile of every team to not have won a Cup since the Sens re-entered the league BUT I still prefer to draft and develop.