Bryan battling cancer

- July 7th, 2014

The Senators confirmed the sad news today about GM Bryan Murray.
The diagnosis came recently of cancer. He informed the scouting staff after the draft. He had more more meetings in the last week to outline what route would be taken.
Murray elected to work through the draft and free agency with all this going on. Keep Bryan Murray in your thoughts. He is a good man who has spent his lifetime in hockey.
Here is a copy of the news release:

The Ottawa Senators announced today that General Manager and President of Hockey Operations Bryan Murray has been recently diagnosed with cancer. The Senators organization issued the following statement:
“Mr. Murray is undergoing further testing and will begin treatment immediately for this condition as prescribed by the team’s doctors in collaboration with specialists.

Mr. Murray’s treatment schedule may require him to be away from the Senators office periodically. During his periodic absence, assistant general managers Pierre Dorion and Randy Lee will be responsible for managing the Ottawa Senators hockey operations department.

On behalf of the entire Senators family, the team is asking that the thoughts, prayers and support of the entire hockey community are with Bryan and his family.

The Senators and Mr. Murray ask that you please respect his family’s privacy during this time.

There will be no further comment from the Senators organization.”

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50 comments

  1. PaV says:

    Bruce, I noticed that a lot of hockey minds echoed your comments on the fact that Murray is a good man who have spent his entire lifetime in hockey. I wish him a very speedy recovery.

  2. OD99 says:

    Insidious disease that does not take into account anything about a person. I am sure he will get the best doctors and treatment available – good luck in winning this battle.

  3. Daniel Murphy says:

    Can anyone out there tell me of one trade Ottawa has made in the last 10 years that we can honestly say was a good trade and that we came out on top. I can only think of getting Anderson for Eliott. Are there any others?

  4. OD99 says:

    Murphy – off the top of my head I have a few recent ones:

    1. Turris for Rundblad

    2. Methot for Foligno

    3. Bobby Ryan for Silf and Noessen

    4. Vermette for LeClaire and Lehner

    There are obviously others and some that involved picks that were probably washes…that said, the pro evaluation hasn’t been as good as the amateur evaluations in my mind.

    We have some depth now – would be nice to see it turned into some legit top end NHL talent.

  5. KevinF says:

    Bryan Murray may well be the great fellow that the local media makes him out to be. Two fellows whos judgment I trust without question tell me that is the case. I wish him nothing but the best with his health. Doesn’t make one difference of my opinion of him as GM, he’s been terrible. Good people can be incompetent GMs, not so good people can be GMs of Cup winners.

  6. Bobby Goodman says:

    Danny-boy, how about the trade that landed Turris for Rund’sbad? That was a very good trade, don’t you think mon ami?

    Insidious is a great description Dave; we seen it in out family and although most survived we did lose one. There have been significant advancements in treating this insidious disease, the survival rite is on a major incline and lots of good reasons to be optimistic. I am not sure what Bryan is fighting but hopefully it was diagnosed early.

  7. Daniel Murphy says:

    Thanks for filling me in OD and Bobby. I suppose every team has a long list of good trades and a long list of bad trades. I guess the Bishop trade for Conacher is still bugging me.

    On a secondary note, the way soccer players go down if though they were shot leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. I think it is pathetic and true soccer fans and the players should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this crap to continue.

    Now, Alex better do something quick to right the Blue Jays. It will be a shame if their games in September are more or less meaningless.

  8. PaV says:

    OD – not sure if we can call the LeClaire trade a success – yes he had injury issues which plagued his time here in Ottawa, but he wasn’t a good goalie. The rest of the trades I would agree with you. The Bobby Ryan trade was one of the better ones.

  9. Visitor - Pierre D. says:

    Wish him all the best. We’ve all been touched by this disease.
    The Turris trade was great, Runds’bad was vastly overrated by those that think the Swedish League is anything but a formative one. Runds’bad can’t even play in Chicago.

    I really do wish that this team could produce some exciting forwards though, it seems all the good ones (outside Spezza and Alfredsson) have been obtained via trade.

  10. Bobby Goodman says:

    I’m not sure Tom Renney is the right man to lead Hokey Canada, but will reserve judgement until we see what he intends to do. I am hopeful but not confident, afterall, his record isn’t one that impresses at all. With a .502 winning percentage it hovers a hair above failure and I wonder, is he the new Prez because he can’t get an NHL gig? I strongly suspect that’s the case but will never really know for sure.

    The boys on the Sports Channels are united in the celebration of the Renney hiring. They said he will help elevate the Coaching Standards in Canadian hockey and I ask how and why? Will he use his style as a blueprint? I certainly hope not! Personally, I found Renney to be another rigid, boring and predictable coach and if I am remotely correct, my fears will be realized and Hokey Canada will remain the same, scorning creativity, skills, passion, individuality and scoring! We all know there have been MANY very skilled juniors who were left off Canada’s Team over the years and it continued again last year with the dismissal of players such as: Sam Bennet, Nick Ritchie, Connor Brown, Max Domi, Michael Dal Colle, Darnel Nurse and others. There is no mystery why Canada hasn’t won a gold medal in 5 years, they never select the best players and built the best team!

    Over the years Coaches like Boucher were heralded as young geniuses who UNDERSTOOD what it took to win; what did Mr. Happy get in Tampa after hiring Boucher, a 1 – 0 – 4 retreat and defend…in the first period fo the game! It was so bad, I actually saw Pronger stop skating and actually stand still, lean on his stick, waiting for a Lightning player to do something…anything. This was genius? The love affair didn’t last long, he was soon gone and we haven’t seen him since. Jacques Martin is another who is one-dimensional, boring and predictable. It takes zero inteligence to Coach the way they did. Renney was the same and he now leads Hokey Canada? Will this be good for Canadian kids? We will find out in December when the Canadian Junior team is selected.

    I remember Pat Burns commenting on how Major League Baseball teams prepare for games versus NHL players. He couldn’t hide his dismay. If anyone went to a game and saw what they do, you would probably laugh. One of the drills they do is a leasurely jog from one line to another and not enough activity to jump a heart past 30 beats a minute. With the rash of injuries the Jays have had the last two years, I wonder if their fitness levels are questionable. Personally, I see far too many overweight Baseball players. Far too many hurt themselves just running the bases for God sakes! It is disgusting. There are some who are in magnificent shape but far too many are not. That’s why Baseball is a game while hockey is a sport.

    Caligula hasn’t won an Open in 8 years or a major in 6 yet he gets most of the air time and ink. He isn’t gracious or likable; I don’t get it.

  11. PaV says:

    I love how the clown on here doesn’t have the class to wish Bryan and his family well. He did however say it was an insidious disease but couldn’t bring himself to actually wish Bryan good luck. Lack of class all around; but to be fair what more can you expect from the village idiot?

  12. Bobby Goodman says:

    Mike Zeisberger was right on in his article today in the Sun; rising costs is the biggest threat and should be Renney and Hokey Canada’s highest priority. The number of kids playing is dwindling year after year, primarily because families simply can’t afford it. Like golf, it is becoming a sport for families who are well off. No longer do kids have unlimited access to play indoors or outside! Sticks, skates and protective equipment are prohibitively expensive. Leagues are folding. In major cities like Toronto, sports other than hockey are getting more attention (mostly because its cheaper and new Canadians don’t embrace the sport). The ex-NHL executive “Simmer” suggested that perhaps it is time for the governements at all levels to get involved and I thoroughly agree with him. He used Sweden’s hockey program as an example. I don’t know all the particulars but from what I do know, it makes good sense to me. Let’s all hope that the hiring of Renney will be described as “shrewed” in a year or two.

    From what I have seen, the kids playing today are taught from early on to “move the puck” and move it quickly! Most develop of fear of it. Some don’t but most do. From day one, it is my opinion all kids need to work on two things, skating and handling the puck. Hokey Canada has migrated away from skill over the years. The media have embraced the love of a defencive posture. Stars get better if they can’t score in bunches like the used (they become more “complete”). Coaches are admired for their rigidity and singularity. Most kids pack the sport in in the middle teens. I suspect most of them have had enough and it ceased to be fun what with the barking and politics (which I have seen first hand). I actually had a “competitive coach” tell me after my son’s game that “competitive hockey wasn’t supposed to be fun”. I told him I played 5 years of Junior then Intermediate “A” and Senior “A” and all of it was fun and that I knew professionals and they were having fun”! I would dearly love Hokey Canada to embrace fun first to keep kids in the game longer.

    It appears the David Poile will not win a Stanley Cup again this year (his 43rd year in the league?). I strongly suspect his Nashville Predators wont play any games when the regular season is over. He may be “aggressive” and he may have “conviction” but he isn’t a good GM! I give him a credit for getting James Neal but from where I sit, there was something very fishy about that deal. There were many GMs in the league who were very upset the deal was done without them even knowing Neal was available! Nashville could have got much more than they did! Poille hasn’t made his team younger nor did he make them faster with his recent signing of Jokinen, Roy and Ribero. Being around for decades, as Poille and others have, is farm more a testimony to their survival (old boy network) than General Management skills.

  13. Bobby Goodman says:

    Oh Pav, you poor soul. As you must certainly know, I am not like you. I don’t feel the desperate need to be associated with hockey players, hockey teams and the like. I would have bet you would be the first one to post your concern for Bryan Murray for all to see; even though we all feel the same way, we don’t share your desperation. You have stooped to a new low…mate.

    I concede I am a viliage idiot Pav and I suspect class to someone like you is very different from what it might mean to someone like me. If I suggest I hope Bryan’s condition was diagnosed early, doesn’t it imply I wish him well you poor dumb bastard?

    There have been many sports personalities who have suffered through various ilnesses over the years and I don’t feel compelled (as you most certainly must) to make it public that I am hoping they get better. Not only do I wish they get better, but I hope everyone (even nobodies like me) get better, quickly.

    I

  14. Bobby Goodman says:

    Oh Pav, you poor soul. As you must certainly know, I am not like you. I don’t feel the desperate need to be associated with hockey players, hockey teams and the like. I would have bet you would be the first one to post your concern for Bryan Murray for all to see; even though we all feel the same way, we don’t share your desperation. You have stooped to a new low…mate.

    I concede I am a viliage idiot Pav and I suspect class to someone like you is very different from what it might mean to someone like me. If I suggest I hope Bryan’s condition was diagnosed early, doesn’t it imply I wish him well you fool?

    There have been many sports personalities who have suffered through various ilnesses over the years and I don’t feel compelled (as you most certainly must) to make it public that I am hoping they get better. Not only do I wish THEY get better, I hope everyone (even nobodies like me) get better, and quickly. You may no know this but nobodies get sick just like nobodies can be heroes…real heroes.

    It is interesting….mate…you insist on calling me a hater but I think those who throw stones shouldn’t live in glass houses. You have made it clear you hate the Montreal Canadian Organization and hockey team. You go out of your way exibit your hatred for certain players (Gionta and Subban are but 2 of them). You have done nothing to hide your hatred of Jason Spezza, even though your personal fantasies (God and King) have been more guilty of all the things you hate Spezza for. Perhaps we all need you to explain when hate is really hate for only you must know for sure.

    I can forgive your stupidity, you can’t do anything about that. I can also forgive your inability to speak or read English. And I can forgive you for your intense insecurity which drives you to shamelessy throw yourself at those associated with the NHL (male version of a puck bunny). But….mate….I can’t forgive your for implying I don’t want anything but the very best for Bryan Murray.

  15. Mike8888 says:

    Bobby,
    The way you wrote off Legwand because of his plus -minus as soon as the Sen’s signed him reminded me of how you did the same after the Sen’s traded for Methot. With Methot though, it was due to his low penalty minute total. Why don’t you admit what most of us already know, that you are not really a Sen’s fan. There’s no crime in that Bobby.

  16. PaV says:

    Oh Bobby, reading your posts conjures an image of such a sad person. I really do feel for you. You keep bringing up the fact that I cannot grasp the English language. This is coming from a guy that likely has a third grade education. Unlike you I am successful in anything I do. Unlike you I don’t spent every waking moment of my life posting long winded nonsense rants. Unlike you I do not and never will think I know more than NHL GMs, coaches or scouts.
    You problem is that you were the guy that always thought he could make it but never was good enough. You come on here, insult, make up childish nicknames in hopes that you get that get some sort of recognition; like a puppy looking to his owners.
    You hate towards the Senators is apparent. You do not come on here and offer anything that is worthwhile. You come on here and trash the team that most of us are fans of.
    You claim you wanted the very best for Murray but yet did not breathe a word of it. You lack class. You lack smarts. You lack pretty much in everything.
    You will always be second best. You should be used to it by now. You whole life you have been second best to someone else. Get used to it, it won’t change.
    Back to Hockey, OD, I do not know much about Stone, but you have some high hopes for him. I am looking forward to see if EK can regain his Norris Trophy self.
    Mike/OD/Kev/Dan – who do you think will get the C this year?

  17. Mike8888 says:

    Pav,
    I think think they should give the C to either Phillips or Neil. I don’t think EK is ready for it yet.

  18. Bobby Goodman says:

    I will always be second best?? I’ll take it and I thank you…mate! You, on the other hand, can’t win, place or even show. You just a big shamess jock sucker who is as dumb as spit.

    I viist Off the Post but I hazzard to guess how many you visit everyday (“Bruce I tweeted you right after tweeting Karly and and Alfie and…and…you responded……..thank you oh so very much, love Pav”). Of course you will never know more than Coaches and GMs, you don’t know the sport!

    I thought I could make it? Raally? Maybe when I was 15? All I ever wanted up until then was to play in the NHL, all you ever wanted to be was a jock sucker….you’re now living the dream Pav and congratulations! Recognition…I don’t throw myself shamelessy at writers, managers and players. I don’t boast about having a cigar with them (I’m sure someone had to get you a towel). My hate is only surpassed by yours…mate! Because English is so very foreign to you, I will introduce you what hate it acually means: a deep, emotional and extreme dislike. It can be directed against individuals, entities, objects, or ideas. Hatred is often associated with feelings of anger and a disposition towards hostility. Hate is something very foreign in Canada and Canadians. However, I am certain you are very familiar with it. It is called “projections” mate….I’ll explain that term to you too with English being your second language and all. Projection is when someone accuses another for the very things they are most guilty of. I hate the Sens but you love the Habs, Leafs and other teams? I hate all the Sen players (I actually really like over half the team) but you love Suckubban, the girl Gionta, Heately, the Habions? I hate Karly and Annika but you love Spezza? I don’t hate anyone, however (I may have said this before), I hate what some do. I hate what has happened to the Ottawa Senators over the last 7 years. I don’t hate McGuinty but I hate what his government has done to Ontario.

    You talk about class and it really is funny. You are an unconsious incompetent (look it up). Only a classless fool like yourself would take the opportunity to post what you did on a topic dedicated to someone fighting cancer. This maybe standard fair where you come from but it isn’t a classy move for a Canadian. You are a shameless fool, mate and a colossal embarrassment.

    Mikey, Legwand has been a minus player for 6 of his last 8 years! Coincidence? isn’t it silly to suggest I am not a Sens fan? If I am not a fan, why do I care? Why should I care who they sign, trade or draft. Wouldn’t I endorse all the bad moves since ’07? Why do I prefer young, fast and couragous players over old retreads? Why do I prefer skill? Why do I want to see more Canadians and French Canadians on the Team? Why would I object to the 4 coaches the GM has hired since he came (soon to be 5 coaches)?

    I think I am a far better fan that you Mikeyl. I want more and you you don’t care.

  19. Neil Harris says:

    This place really has degenerated into Bobby and Pav flinging poop at each other like a couple of 7 year olds.

    Let’s hope Mr. Murray pulls through. It’s no secret I’m not a fan of his work as GM but the man has a competitive spirit that should serve him well in this cruel battle. Good luck.

  20. Bobby Goodman says:

    After 36 holes and the lions share of air time, Caligula finds himself 9 strokes back of Rory in the British Open; maybe we golf fanatics will now get to see some others who have largely been ignored. I understand it is all about the money, he generates more viewers (non golfers I suspect), but when is enough, enough? For two days he dominated the conversation; we didn’t miss a single shot, we saw his swing in slow motion every hole and ever 4 holes the network felt it necessary to give us a recap. I saw very little of Oosteheizen and Schwartzel, Dubuisson, Gallagher and many others.

    I look forward to the Open every year but wonder why the Network wont employ those who do the European Tour week after week? Could it be because they aren’t Caligula fans (just as most of the “patrons” aren’t fond of Caligula). As a true golf fanatic with an insatiable appetite, I have come to appreciate the announcers who do the European Tour (Warren Humphries, Ken Brown, Julian Tutt and company). They don’t feel the need to be the show. They don’t stay up late at night to create a funny and then force feed it in the conversation like the ubiquitous (and annoying) and very proud American, Feherty. They don’t feel compelled to say eachothers name after ever sentence. The Amerian announcers offer nothing but innane observations; they’re all Mr. Obvious! Every shot is impossible, every putt is difficult, bad shots are often described as bad luck. The contradict themselves again and again (expecially Curtis Strange…and why Tom Weiskoff????). They are completely artificial why those who do European Golf Productiions are completely natural. Who can forget the Scott, Rentin Laidlaw, responding to Julian Tutt suggesting Darren Clarke was on a diet (7 years ago): “you say he is on a diet Julian, but he’s busting out of his trousers)! Comments like: “he hit an abslute hooley”, “no need to give it the full monty, just a smoothy is required”. These guys are all honest and the conversation is all natural.

    Caligula will not win this years “Open” and I suspct he wont win the PGA next month which will mean he will not have won a Major in over 6 years! It wont matter though; TGC and America’s obsession will continue. He is fined more than any other for his outbursts and usually it is Jesus Christ when he is annoyed. He doesn’t care that it may offend and he did again in this year’s Open. We’re told when he was a kid, his dad would make noises while he hit a ball to improve his concentration but he his hearing is as good as Monty’s was when he heard everything (Bubba is the same). Buttlerflies landing on sore feet bother him/them. They guy has a difficult time giving anyone credit. He is robotic and awkward in an interview. He isn’t gracious with the fans, even with kids. When asked what was acceptable and what his expectations were before they all teed up on Thursday and he said a win. Really? Thank God for a PVR and FF.

  21. Bruce Garrioch says:

    I’ve given up trying to stop it.

  22. OD99 says:

    Hey Pav – hope your summer is going well.

    I sort of hope they don’t have a C this year to be honest. The only ones who really should have it IMO are Philips or Neil at this stage and since both will be gone within a couple of years I don’t believe it makes sense.

    Going forward I would think Turris might make a good C or if C-Mac was going to stay on for a longer term he could fit that role too.

    Bobby, you played much golf? I have had 2 rounds – one at Eagle that was very good and one at Loch March that was pretty bad.

  23. Bobby Goodman says:

    Neil, Bruce and others, please accept my appology; you guys are right of course. I would however love to read how Pav and many others think the team will do next year. I would also like to know what has to happen for them to want change.

    I think it is silly for the some to think Lazar might be ready for the Show. He wont be. I like thye kid but he is dazzling and he doesn’t dominate; he is like a smaller and less physical Fisher. I would certainly have him here with the rookies and have in some games in pre-season but send him back to Junior to allow him to grow and then I would have him spend a year in the manures. This is what great Organizations do.

  24. PaV says:

    Neil – you are new here. We just like pointing out how much of a crazy old man Bobby is. :)

    Mike, I think EK will get it. I am not sure why. I would take Phillips but he has one year left.

  25. PaV says:

    And oh Bobby :) sounds like you have lost one to many gfs or wives to best friends. Try to get out more. Make you life better; hey even at your age you can go back to school. :)

  26. PaV says:

    I am just going to ignore the rants. If Bobby stops with the childish nicknames, ill be more than happy to engage.

    On a side note, went to the Red Blacks game yesterday. Was a great time!

  27. neil harris says:

    PaV. Smiles aside, you still make this online feud way more important than it should be. Both of you are childish. The “one-up” he has is that most of his predictions/statements about our team are fairly accurate.

    I’m not sure what the near term holds. Hopefully BM’s illness is beatable. Hopefully there is money to spend. Hopefully there is a plan….

  28. Bobby Goodman says:

    Dave, I’ve only played 5 games myself. Half the shots have been great but…the other half very bad. It doesn’t really matter though, I do love the game (I would go so far as to call it my magnificent obsession). Why have you only played twice? Have you been that busy (all work and no play…). You have got to take the time to make the time mon ami.

    Have you been watching the Open? Hasn’t Mcllroy been magnificent; I absolutely love his golf swing and for a little guy (5-9 165) he hits it longue. I love the Open but I do wish they would include other course in the roter. This golf course is flat and only made difficult by pot bunkers, which unlike bunkers in the US, are acutally punitive (as they should be). I know some who have played St Andrews and they say it is underwhelming. Too me, links golf should be more than a flat golf course only made difficult by bunkers and the elements. There are soooo many great golf courses they could/should include and some outstanding courses in Ireland. I don’t think its golf, when someone can win a championship leaving the driver in the bag. Great courses should demand the best and that includes all 14 clubs in the bag. It also makes for better entertainment. Mclllroy has attacked the golf course and he hasn’t left the head cover on his driver. He has been fun to watch.

    There will be a Captain on the Sens this year I suspect and it wont be a surrise to anyone who has been paying attention.

  29. Bobby Goodman says:

    I think Allan Rock’s decision to suspend the University of Ottawa’s hockey program is careless and senseless. We’re not privy to what actually went on the night the aledged sexual assault took place in Thunder Bay, but we do know there were only 3 players involved. If that is accurate, why punish the overwhelming majority of players were were absolutely innocent? Indeed sexual assault is very serious but does Rock need such a heavy handed approach? Was his move motivated by politics? What does banning the program for one year actually accomplish? I’ll answer the question, it will accomplish nothing but punish many who simply want to play hockey while they get an education and have done nothing wrong! Will the program be be re-established the following year? I suspect it will and if it does, will the blemish of the incident be forgot? Of course not, the punishment of a year long suspen sion puts the UofO hockey program behind by one year at the very least. Players who are really serious about playing are exploring other schools as options. Most of the these kids aren’t walk ons like it was 40 years ago, these kids come from Major Junior A or Tier II. CHL players get one year of education paid for every year they play Junior hockey (it is a great program and encourages many to stay in Canada). These kids can really play! The tragedy of suspending team/program for a year is it makes everyone appear guilty and that simply wasn’t the case! The police are finishing their investigation and we will know their findings soon enough, then those who are truly responsible will have to face the music.

    Incidents like what happened last year with the UofO hockey team is not new; as long as there are varsity athletics, there will be a very small sample of disgusting idiots who will violate codes of conduct and the law (just like there are idiots in society). Suspending the team and program, implies many were guilty and they weren’t. Rock, if he had any sense at all, should know this. I suspect he surely does but the optics weren’t to his liking. This is just another example of “political correctness trumping logic and common sense”. It is the way of the world today.

  30. OD99 says:

    Bruce Garrioch says:
    July 19, 2014 at 10:23 am
    I’ve given up trying to stop it.

    Don’t give up Bruce! ;)

    Or…have them take off the dumb and archaic moderation piece…if something is too bad you can delete it afterwards but I doubt it will get to that point.

    Who should we all email to have that removed? The 7 or so of us that actually visit this blog don’t need it and I think everyone will find the dialogue is actually more civil and more flowing if it is removed.

    You would probably get some more traffic here as well.

  31. Bobby Goodman says:

    So Shanny fired Loiselle, Poulin and hired and the 28 year old Kyle. He is described as a boy wonder (wasn’t Boucher describedf the same way?). Dubas will take Loiselle’s role for responsibility with salary cap management. It has always been my contention that that job should belong to someone with business administration in their back ground. The GM would be the hockey guy and his GMs would assist him with the finance and evaluation of talent. It is said Dubas is in tune with a shift of some teams to adopt analytics as a stats-based method of grading player talent. Personally, I think it is beyond silly.

    Analytics in Baseball can work because the sport has many on the bench and only 9 can play. 25 players are on the active roster! But the most compelling reason is the reality pitching determines the outcome of games most of the time. Hockey doesn’t have a postion that dominates the outcome most games. The game is dynamic and fast. I will always lean to what I see a player do versus relying on “analytics”. There have been some huge inconsistencies associated with it already.

    If a kid possesses the necessary skills and he is dedicated and committed, what else does someone need to know? Flaws in a players game is on full display every game they play! Analyutics reminds me of a story of a good friend and golf fanatic who had his numbers done. He had a driver specifically built for hiim based on his swing characteristics to maximize: launch, ball speed, spin etc. He couldn’t wait to put it in his bag. After several rounds he returned to his COTS stick he bought at Golf Town. He hit it better and he didn’t have any data at all when he bought it.

    I could be way off, again, but all the data an evaluator really needs is already available for grading hockey players. I wonder how much Chicago, Boston and LA (who have won the Championship two of the last 3 years) have relied on “analytics”. Do I need BI to tell me Toews, Cain, Doughty and players of that ilk are great? Do I need fancy stats to tell me a goalie has an amazing save percentage?

    Shanny got a 28 year old right out of OHL and he is going to be the future for the Maple Leafs; perhaps he will, but I would have had him shadow Poulin for a year or two to learn the ropes. Analytics…fancy stats…I suspect they make for good conversation but I sincerly doubt they help build great hockey teams. The Leafs must have ignored fancy stats this summer because they did nothing to make their team better. I wonder if analytics can be used to tell the President of Hockey Operations at MLSE that Clarkson really played well for the Toronto Maple Leafs?

  32. PaV says:

    Neil – all smiles aside, I wouldn’t mind the criticism of my team if there were actual facts and not stuff that is made up to support the rants. I know the team isn’t perfect, but don’t come on here each and everyday and trash the team, make up nicknames and think you know better.

    The team is going to be what it is.

    Looking forward to EK getting the C and getting back to being a Norris candidate.

  33. Bobby Goodman says:

    Kyle Dubas is now a star….in Leaf Nation (damn there are a lot of “nations” these days). I read comparisons to Theo Epstein. For those who aren’t familiar with Epstein he was the youngest GM in MJB when he joined the Red Sox. He may have built championship winning teams but it is never noted that he had a payroll that rivalled the NYY which dwarfed most teams…they had individual players with salaries that weren’t far off some team’s payroll. He was a boy wonder and now he is with the Chicago Cubs who are currently 13 1/2 games out of first place.

    Dubas is deemed a boy wonder but I ask, why? I applaud that he was youngest GM in OHL history. I applaud that he was the youngest certified player agent. The kid graduated with Honors from Brock and it is commendable! But as wonderful as all this is, what has he done that makes him such a prize for the Toronto Maple Leafs? The Sault St Marie Greyhounds missed the playoffs ’11 and again in ’12 and they were bounced from the playoffs in ’13 and ’14 (they lost in 4 games straight).

    But the celebration of his hiring shouldn’t come as a surprise. Everything that the Leaf’s do is celebrated by Sportsnet, TSN and all the others in TV, Radio, printed media and the internet….in Ontario. Remember when they all went nuts over Lord Burke and him signing Primeau, Axelby, Green and company? The all went crazy when Shanahan was hired even though he never was a Scout, Director, AGM or GM. He failed in his two other positions given to him by the NHL: Vice President of Hockey Business Development and Chief disciplinarian. It doesn’t matter that he did precious little in both jobs, he was going to save the Toronto Maple Leafs.

    The brilliant Shanahan is reluctant to say what he wants to do with the team but is willing to share that “it is a difficult task”. This is a very safe approach (set the bar very low). And low it is with the club adding Frattin, Kamorov, Booth and Robidas this summer. Shanahan has mastered the art of saying precious little, he knows it is better to keep one’s mouth shut and have people think your an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt. His hiring of Dubas represents his obvious effort to portray himself as a youthful executive who is a progressive thinker. Afterall Dubas can articulate what the difference between a shot and a scoring opportunity is!

    Dubas knows his Corsi but is that all there is? How much will intimate knowledge of fancy stats help build a winning hockey club? In business, Business Inteligence S/W has been used for years so that those in charge can make decisions based on acurate and real-time data. Nothing new here. But when a hockey team is built, how much does analytics (beyond what is done already) really help? Will we need analytics to determine if analytics is working?

    Some say “KPI, dashboards and AS may make someone think they know what is going on, but do they? Counting is easy, measuring is hard”

  34. OD99 says:

    Agree on the UofO hockey program – it is a real shame many get painted with the same brush. Similar thing happened with a football program last year I think because a few players were found to have juiced or something. It is all about the optics.

    As for golf – between lots of travel for work and two kids under 3 1/2 there is not much time for hitting the links I am afraid but I will keep trying.

    Karlsson may well get the C and that is modern hockey – I don’t think it would be bad per se but I would like to see him have time to keep maturing into his role as a superstar without the added pressure that will come with that.

    I am not much of a fancy stat guy myself but I don’t think the various numbers are there to help identify the top players – as you say anyone can do that. It is to find those gems in the rough, players who go under the radar but quietly play the right way. If a player is constantly on the ice for more shots towards the oppositions net than his own that is a pretty good sign in very base terms so if you can find the 3rd and 4th liners that can accomplish it, your team should be in a better position than if the opposite were true.

    I was at the Red Blacks game as well – was very fun and I guess by being on the South Side I wasn’t affected by many of the issues that the North siders dealt with. Hope they can start to get the O going again and beat those Tabbies!

  35. PaV says:

    OD – I am torn about having the C given to EK. I would like him to have it, but like yourself, not sure if he is mature enough to handle it. I am looking forward to the new season of hockey. We will know soon enough how well the team will do. The Red Blacks game was fun – not sure what the complaint was by so many, but it was opening night in a construction zone! I am going again next week – looking forward to us coming back clearly in first place.

  36. Bobby Goodman says:

    Dave, I was at St Mary’s early in the last millenium; they had some major jerks on the football team that terrorized a reciever (he used too much tape apparently). He came back to his room one afternoon to find everything gone; thrown out a window. The Football program continued and no one was publicly punished or held accountable. That’s the opposite side of the coin. I say punish the guilty only, but punish them for sure. But isn’t it the way now-adays? The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is used by criminals to make a mockery of the law and defence attourneys are lovin’ it. What’s best for the majority takes a back seat to and we tend to paint everything with a broad brush. Some kids in Toronto got hurt in middle school playing soccer and later that year the school banned all activity that included a ball! Some kids didn’t like to lose so some brilliant adults thought it best to not keep score. A sliver of people object to a sport team’s name and pressure is put on to change it. Logic be damned!

    As you know by now Dave, I am not a proponent of Advanced Stats. I strongly suspect they can paint an inacurate picture of what is really happening. There have been quite a few players who joined the Bruins and their numbers got much better! Before the Bruins some were criticized for being defencive liabilities but that all changed when they joined the Bruins. Look at what Gaborik has done in LA!

    Very base terms is right. What does it really mean when a player is on the ice for a lot of his teams shots? Who is on the ice with him; are they shooters. Can an offencive player be “saddled” with wingers who don’t and can’t score goals and can’t find a hole or recieve a pass to make a shot? Are their stats to capture that? What it they do get a pass and miss the net? Karlsson takes a gazillion shots most games even when there is little chance of scoring (and often when it is better to find an open man or there is someone right in the way to block it) so wouldn’t some players on the ice with him post some good CORSIES?

    I will trust what I see a hell of a lot more that AS. Give me a player who is fast, couragous and committed to winning and he will be my choice evertime. Do AS reveal heart, passion, character, courage, physicality, pride and committment?

    As I suggested, fancy stats works for baseball. It will reveal how good a player bats against certain pitchers and vice versa. Pitching, as young Stroman and Sanchez proved with the Jays recently, is 75% if not more of the game! I would love to know what diamond in the rough was actually discovered by the use of Advanced Stats. It didn’t help Dubas in the Sault, his teams missed the post season twice and lost in the quarter finals the last 4 years! This was enough to say he is Boy Wonder? Does the fact that he is young and mastered AS, make him great? I look at what the Hunters have done in London and say they have been “wonders”!

  37. Bobby Goodman says:

    Davey, wouldn’t it make a mockery of the role if Karlsson was named Captain of the Sens? What exactly is the role of an NHL Captain? In traditional sense a Captain leads his team both on and off the ice. I look around the league at Captains who have earned my respect: Landeskog, Zetterberg, Benn, Getzlaf, Chara, Toews, Tavares, Stamkos and Gioradino. What do they all have in common? They possess class and character, they never quit and they show up for every game. I suspect their coach never said their games were “shoddy”. I suspect team mates never referred to their games as “casual” or that they don’t show up. No one could identify “glaring deficiencies” and I would wager none of the aforementioned offered excuses, was crass with and banned the media.

    But it isn’t always who is the best for the position of Captain, for some teams it is who is the best and most marketable player. There is no way Ovechkin should be given the role of Captain of any team. But he is the most popular player (and a coach killer). Make no mistake, Karly will be named Captain of the hockey club here in Ottawa; it may not happen this year but if it doesn’t, it would truly shock me. The Sens will not be very good this year and the Organization will need a distraction and Karlsson fits the bill. He is the Face of the Franchise and the Marketting Department will go crazy. Just like the super saturation we all saw with Annika, it may even be more so with Karlsson. The RedBlack learned from the Sens, they have one player on their team, Burris their quarterback. He is front and center everywhere and all the time. He is a leader and great in the community but I want to see a winning team than can score touchdowns.

    If I was a player on the Sens, I would be inspired by the play of guys like Turris, MacArthur, Methot and others. Captains should be focussed on doing what is necessary to make the TEAM successful; winning should be paramount. Can anyone honestly say that winning is what Karly is focussed on? Would you follow him into battle? If you can say you’ve witnessed him not making an effort, conceding the puck, disappearing in games or quitting on a play, should he be the Sens next Captain?

    From a business perspective, one could argue that he should, but his behaviour off the ice hasn’t been Getzlaf, Toews or Giordano-like, has it?

    So, the question, should he be Captain, wont matter a lick because he will be. But, I ask you, would he be named Captain in Anaheim, LA, Chicago, Boston, Dallas, Columbus, Colorado or Montreal…even if their current Captains weren’t there? If you can honestly say he wouldn’t be, the next question I would ask you is why?

  38. KevinF says:

    Dumb and archaic moderation indeed Dave dishonest censorship can be added. What used to be a place for entertaining hockey discussion has become one dishonest fools platform to post his often innaccurate boreatories on ranging subjects, too bad. Hey Bruce seems like you were pretty impressed with the Sens bar in the market eh? It has no bounds!

  39. Bobby Goodman says:

    It is too bad we didn’t get to see more of Brad Fritch in this year’s Canadian Open. Hew opened with a bad score. Brad has the ability to go real low, but all to often he has to because of a bad round or two. He has a Jekyl and Hyde to his game. Delaet is a fantastic ball striker and he is long. But, he throws a lot of shots away with is putting. By my count he should have been 4 strokes better on Saturday and 3 on Sunday and that’s no counting Thursday and Friday’s play. He is a fresh face with an egaging personality. I love the kid.

    I find it fascinating to hear many complain how boring Furyk’s play is. On 1200 this morning the two fools echoed what many have said, they “hate watching him play”. They didn’t say a word about the winner Tim Clark! Clark won his second PGA event and he can’t be described as an exciting player, can he? He hits the ball shorter than Furyk, by PGA standards he has a poor short game (split handed grip for chips, he has the ch-yips), he must use a lot of fairway woods and hybrids to hit greens in regulation and relies on his anchored putting style to get the ball in the hole which will be banned from use in 2016. Clark has two PGA victories to his credit and Furyk has 16 (and should have been more). No one seems to say they hate watching Steve Stricker, why? He has 12 victories and his game is similar to Furyk’s in that they both play a precision game and do not over-power the golf course. Stricker is another who relies on his amazing putting to win. He, like Furyk don’t have personalities that light up a room. But, it is now fashionable to not like Furyk even though the idea is to get the ball in the hole as quickly as you can. Furyk has a quirky swing (to say the least) and he is wonderful himan being. He does a lot for charity (many PGA players do) and unlike many hockey players, he does it because he wants to not because he is told. Perhaps if he behaved badly people like the two morons in the moring would like him better. As a fan of the game, I appreciate what he and all of them can do. Oh yes, the two morons in the morning didn’t know that Delaet was the other golfer, along with Furyk (they played in the same foursome!) who shot 63! They were too focussed on complaining they didn’t see enough of Fritch. They “hate taped broadcasts”. I have to assume they don’t use a PVR.

    I remember when the Canadian Open was a “bigger event”. It never got a lot of respect but whatever it did have, it is even less today. There was a fantastic field playing this year even though some of the worlds best didn’t play…again. Can the PGA do more? I think they can and they should. I don’t know the logistics but perhaps scheduling the Canadian Open in the so-called Playoffs would assure participation by the best in the world. I also put blame on some of the best in the world; if Mcllroy, Mickleson, Caligula, Bubber, Fowler participated, the tourny would regain its lost lustre.

  40. Bruce Garrioch says:

    I have to moderate my own comments.

  41. PaV says:

    OD – Was talking this over with a few buddies of mine this past weekend, some SENS fans and some not and the majority of them felt that giving the C to EK is premature. Most felt that that they needed to give it to someone like Phillips and have EK grow in to it. I still think giving EK the C is a good idea, but I have some reservations on it. He wants to win, he wants to compete. I do not think he was at 100% last season, and with his personal life in dismay, I can see how he was a little distracted.

    Looking forward to heading to the Red Blacks game on Sat. Will you be there?

  42. OD99 says:

    Bruce, we know it isn’t you but surely the editors or powers that be can figure this very complicated issue out. Someone in IT could un-check one box and moderation would be off…

    As for Karlsson with the C – I agree with you to some degree Bobby but I also agree with Pav and most of the public comments were on the heels of a very tumultuous year for him. We may all take for granted that pro athletes shouldn’t be vulnerable to life outside of hockey but as a young kid he had his mentor and best friend (plus the kids and Bobbi) leave, another friend traded (Silf) and his marriage disolve all the while having to recover from a potentially career altering injury. These are significant events in anyone’s life, let alone a young man’s with all the scrutiny he already faces.

    Would I like to see his game mature this season? No doubt. Do I believe he can mature and will he be in a better place mentally this season? Absolutely. Do I think he wants to win? A resounding yeck yes – that isn’t even a question to me.

    That said, he hasn’t show captain material to me yet and I still would rather have a few A’s and go captainless until someone really shows they deserve it (I would say Neil and/or Philips deserve it but since they will be gone in a couple years I would rather not have it issued).

    I was disappointed with DeLeat – he missed an opening 30′ birdie on Saturday by about 1mm…just short. He then missed a few more short ones and compounded it with his 3-jack from 10′ on the 18th…he just never got it going. Fritsch had an amazing Sunday run and easily could have been 2 more under par with any luck on 17 and 18 – two short birds missed. Still, 2 Canucks in the top 10 is nice and hopefully DeLeat has a nice run in the FedEx.

    The RedBlacks let one slip away against the Tabbies and the D looked atrocious…strange to give up two long plays on first two drives after looking pretty good most of the season and the offense didn’t show up when needed. Not a bad looking expansion team though.

    Won’t be able to make this weekend’s game as I will be off camping at Frontenac Park with a bunch of friends but I will make a few more before the season is over for sure.

    Bobby I think you are off the mark and showing some bias saying PGA players all give to charity of their own volition while NHLers are told to do so. In fact I think you are really off the mark and not sure why you even have that belief. For one, most of the PGA charitable funds come from practice rounds and pro-ams and second there are givers in all walks of life and plenty of pro athletes in all sports do it because they want to. I really don’t see how you feel you can classify one type of athlete over another that way and there is obviously nothing to back that up.

  43. PaV says:

    I should have also added in that EK can’t be any worse than Spezza. The guy couldn’t lead a herd of sheep off a cliff.

  44. Bobby Goodman says:

    Isn’t it fascinating that some NEED our host(s) to introduce a topic for discussion? When not spoon-fed they resort to what comforts them, complaining. whining and name calling. There is no limit to what can be discussed and this dishonest fool would love to read what people think. Just in the last week or so I have tried to get a discussion going and introduced topics such as: Hokey Canada’s hiring of Tom Renney, David Poille and the Predators, Canadian Open, the Ottawa Senators vacant captaincy, Allan Rock and the University of Ottawa hockey program, MLSE, Shanahan and their hiring of Dubas…but one, who comes here once in a while, wont contribute anything and you have to wonder why.

    Maybe we can motivate the cronic complainer to say a few things about his beloved Leafs. As a fan, I don’t like what the team has done this summer. The Leafs have now signed Winnick and again, the Maple Leaf centric media love it. Winick will join Booth, Frattin, Komarov, Santorelli and Robidas this year. I wonder if Advanced Stats revealed hidden skill-sets that the naked eye simply couldn’t see. So far, Shanahan has been masterful…at setting low expectations. From this Fool’s perspective the Prez hasn’t done anything to truly help the hockey club. By firing the A/Coaches, Carlyle must know he is on a short leach. Winnick, Booth (who has never been the same after a nasty hit. concussion) and Robidas are retreads. Komarov is a 5-10 guy who only hits those who are in a vulnerable position and never sticks around to face the music if there is trouble. Frattin, who I really liked, has struggled (I hope he can find his game) and Santorelli is on his 5th team. He never could replicate his one good year he had in Florida where he scored 20 goals. Are these good moves and will they help the hockey club?

    It is comical, now that Reimer has re-signed, to hear him talk about his relationship with Carlyle; he respects him as a coach!!! Really? Bernier is one of the better goalies in the league….really? I favor big goalies.

    What is a player worth? How much should he earn? In Sportsnet’s mag this month many think Phaneuf is overpaid. Perhaps he is but, on the Toronto Maple Leafs he is their best defenceman and the best defenceman on most teams will get paid very well. The best players on every team get paid very well! Gunnerson, who played with Phaneuf was plus 12 and he was traded for Roman Polak?

    Will the Leafs be better this year? Anyone care to guess. Personally, I don’t think they will.

  45. PaV says:

    It is comical, now that Reimer has re-signed, to hear him talk about his relationship with Carlyle; he respects him as a coach!!! Really? Bernier is one of the better goalies in the league….really?

    Its not that comical. Carlyle will not last 15 games, if that. Reimer will get the last laugh.

  46. Bobby Goodman says:

    Davey, was making reference to the players, not the PGA as an entity and I said many PGA members are chartitable, not all. I am not sure I have a bias but there can be no doubt I prefer the sincerity of individuals who donate their time on his own volition. I find it more legitimate.

    I am not convinced as you and most certainly are, that Karlsson wants to win. To this fool, it is hard to believe it when we see his lack effort in his own end. We have also seen him quit on a play and not show up for games. How is this behaviour consistent with wanting to win? I truly hope he abandons that style of play; we will just have to wait and see.

  47. Bobby Goodman says:

    You really have to wonder what is going in Toronto. I celebrate the Organization signing Gardiner to a 5 year contract; he is certainly worth it and MAY pan out as one of their best deals ever (if The Big Rig is worth 4m, Gardiner is worth 8). But, he will be playing for Carlyle and Carlyle has been a train wreck. It is my opiinion he has retarded the growth of certain young players and Gardiner is one of them. Rather than motivate, he has served only to discouraged them.

    What wasn’t to like about Gardiner? The kid is 6-2, 190 and is one of the best skaters in the NHL. He is amazing with the puck and can take it coast to coast beating many along the way. He possesses a great shot! In his first year in the League he played 75 games and had 31 points! But, the next year he spent 45 games playing for the Marlies where he had 31 points. He dominated but it didn’t earn him am extended promotion and you have to wonder why. Last year he had 10 goals and 31 points in 80 games and I believe he can do much more, if he had a Coach he believed in and with whom he had a healthy player/coach relationship (maybe Gardiner will do a Reimer and learn to love and respect the man). But, it isn’t Carlyle’s style. Good timing whether planned or a matter of luck have made some out to be great. Away from an Annaheim team that could beat all comers in the ally, Carlyle has been just awful. Him staying on for another year and the Organization signing Gardiner for 5, seems somewhat…incongruent. Reilly and Gardiner are a lot of fun to watch. They make mistakes but they don’t concede the puck and they don’t quit.

  48. PaV says:

    According to TSN:
    According to Ken Campbell of The Hockey News, the Canadiens submitted an offer of $5.25 million on a one-year contract, while Subban – represented by agent Don Meehan of Newport – is asking for $8.5 million.

    If the Habs really wanted to keep Subban, wouldn’t they have offered him a long term deal? It looks like the Habs are not fully confident that Subban will become that number one D that they were hoping for. Or maybe the whispers around the league that Subban is not very well liked are true. Either way, one has to wonder why the Habs are not giving him more than a year.

  49. OD99 says:

    Bobby we can agree to disagree.

    I can’t fathom why you feel NHL players give up their time only because of the team wishes but you are entitled to your opinion.

    That Gardiner deal shocked me – I thought he would get more and can’t believe he signed at that amount for such a long term…that is a steal in my books.

    Pav, I have to believe PK would still be a restricted FA after next season so they are trying to get something done in the short term? Seems awfully low for a 1 year deal though.

  50. PaV says:

    OD – it is very low for a one year deal. The Habs are screwing around with someone that has a lot of raw talent.

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